Tape 2: Thucydides, The Peloponnesian War

Copyright © 1996 R.J. Kilcullen

This is the second cassette in POL167. Open the first volume of Readings at p. 1. We get from the ancient Greeks many of the terms and concepts of political thought -- democracy, monarchy, etc. -- and many of the arguments and theories. So for the next few weeks we will read extracts from ancient Greek writers on politics -- Herodotus, Thucydides, Plato and Aristotle. Herodotus and Thucydides are historians. This week we will read just one page of Herodotus and more extensively from Thucydides. Next week we will see how Plato criticised the politics and politicians Thucydides admired.

First some etymology. You will need some paper to make notes on -- perhaps an exercise book for POL167 notes. Pause the tape while you arrange that. In classical Greek there were two words for "rule" or "government", namely kratos and arche. Kratos means might, power, dominion, sway; arche sometimes means a beginning or origin (archaeology is the study of origins), but sometimes it means supreme power, sovereignty. From kratos we derive various words that end in -cracy -- democracy, aristocracy; from arche various words in '-archy' -- monarchy, for example. "Anarchy" means absence of government -- "a", or before a vowel "an", is a privative prefix, like "non". Monos in Greek meant "one" or "single". "Demos" meant "the people". "Aristos" meant "the best", "oligos" meant "few". Another political word is "tyranny", from "turannos" meaning "lord" or "master", or someone who had seized monarchy by force. Another is "despot", which meant the master of slaves, or a monarch who treats his subjects like slaves. Write down one under the other, first line "monarchy, tyranny or despotism", second line "aristocracy or oligarchy", third line "democracy". The words in the first line apply to governments headed by a single person -- "tyranny" and "despotism" imply an unfavourable judgment, "monarchy" is the neutral term, literally rule by a single person. The words in the second line apply to government by a relatively small number: "oligarchy" means literally rule by the few, but it was used generally to express disapproval; "aristocracy" means "rule by the best", who will be few. "Democracy" in the third line means rule by the people.

The Persian War

Herodotus' book is a history of the war between the king of Persia and the Greeks. (Translation online) The Greeks did not have a single state; they had many cities or towns, each with its bit of countryside, but no national political authority -- like New Guinea before it was taken over by European governments. In fact ancient Greece was rather like New Guinea or Melanesia -- villages separated by mountains and other land barriers, communicating by sea. The main business of Greek political life was war -- the various towns fought one another continually. The word "Polis" meant a city or town; politics was city business. Politics was carried on like war. It was an extremely competitive contest, in which men struggled to dominate one another, mainly for glory -- a bit like our Parliamentary politics, really.

Herodotus's book tells how the Persian kings Darius and Xerxes sent invading forces into Greece. The Persians built a bridge of boats across the Hellespont and went over into northern Greece and moved southward. Some of the northern cities surrendered and even helped the Persians against their neighbours. But an alliance formed under the leadership of Athens and Sparta -- the Athenians supplied ships and sailors and naval leadership, the Spartans supplied land forces. The invasion overran Athens, but the Athenians did not surrender -- they abandoned their city, moved to an island, and continued the war. Herodotus describes the famous battles of Thermopylae, in which a small force of Spartans died to hold a pass against the invaders, and the Greek victory at Marathon, and the sea battle at Salamis. These were famous names for the Greeks, like Gallipoli and Kakoda are for us.

Eventually the Persians retreated, but they continued to intervene in Greek affairs from time to time until their empire was destroyed by Alexander 'the Great', c. 330 BC. The classical period of Greek history comes between these two wars with Persia -- the one described by Herodotus, and the one in which Alexander finally defeated the Persians.

References

On p. 1 of Readings, notice on the RH of the top margin, "Book III". Ancient books were divided into "books" -- book in this sense being part of a book in the other sense. Books are generally numbered with Roman numerals. Notice at the beginning of the LH column the number "80", and two lines from the bottom of the column "81", half way down the middle column "82". These are chapters. The chapters in ancient books are generally short. The usual reference system is to cite by book and chapter -- e.g. Herodotus, book III, chapter 80, often written "III [large Roman].80 [arabic]".

At the end of chapter 80 I have drawn a corner mark to indicate the end of the first section to read. In the margin at the left I have put crosses, to indicate places I will comment on. So read Herodotus III.80, down to the first mark. Bear in mind that what you get by reading is the main thing -- don't be in too much of a hurry to come back to the cassette. (Pause.)

Comments:

Herodotus has just described how a revolution overthrew the existing government of Persia. (His book, The Histories, is the history of the great war between the Persians and the Greeks.) After the revolution the successful conspirators discuss what sort of government they should establish.

'Many of the Greeks give no credence': The speeches are very much in terms of Greek political concepts, so it seems unlikely they were really made by Persians.

'Monarchy': as I explained before, this is from monos single and arche rule.

'isonomy': equality of laws, i.e., laws that treat everyone equally.

Note that Otanes' argument for democracy is an argument against monarchy -- as if these were the only alternatives.

Read III.81, down to the next mark. (Pause.)

I have already explained the meaning of oligarchy and democracy. Megabyzus is advocating aristocracy, rule by the few (oligos) who are "the worthiest" or "the best".

Read III.82-3, down to the next mark. (Pause.)

'Three forms of government': The Greeks generally held that every government must be one of these three -- rule by one, rule by a few or rule by the people.

Note the argument that monarchy comes about as a result of quarrels among the few or among the people.

The outcome of this discussion was the establishment of a monarchy with certain families in a privileged position. When Greek authors refer to "the King" they mean the king of Persia, the most powerful monarch in their world.

Thucydides, The Peloponnesian War

The next book we will look at is Thucydides History of the Peloponnesian War.

(Quotations below are from Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War, translated by Rex Warner, introduction and notes by M.I. Finley (Penguin, 1972).) Another translation, by Thomas Hobbes (1629). Translation by Richard Crawley (1866-74).

During the great Persian war the Athenians and the Spartans were allies. But as the Persians retreated the Athenians and the Spartans fell out. The Spartans tried to prevent the Athenians from rebuilding the defensive walls of Athens. The Athenians formed an alliance of coastal and island Greek cities against the Persians, and they gradually turned this alliance into an empire. Eventually, in 431 BC, just over 50 years after the end of the Persian war, Athens and Sparta went to war, and this is Thucydides story. Read book I, chapters 1, 22, and 23, down to the mark at the end of Readings, p. 2. (Pause.)

Comments:

'Hellenic' (I.1): The Greeks called themselves Hellenes and called their country Hellas.

'Speeches': Rhetoric, the art of making speeches, was a highly regarded skill. It may be that Thucydides wrote his history partly to exercise and demonstrate his own rhetorical skill ('to make the speakers say what, in my opinion, was called for by each situation').

Note the passage at the end of the extract from chapter 22: "It will be enough for me, however, if these words of mine are judged useful by those who want to understand clearly the events which happened in the past and which (human nature being what it is) will, at some time or other and in much the same ways, be repeated in the future. My work is not a piece of writing designed to meet the taste of an immediate public, but was done to last for ever."

Human nature

"Human nature being what it is": What is human nature like, according to Thucydides? And is human nature always like that, everywhere -- "forever"? As you read on, you will find that Thucydides thinks, or the speakers in his story think, that human beings are essentially self-interested and competitive, not really restrained by morality or religion. Thucydides is in fact one of the sources of the cynical view of human nature held by James Mill and rejected by John Mill, namely that human beings are by nature purely selfish. Perhaps this is a slight exaggeration where Thucydides is concerned, because moral arguments do figure in his speeches: but always in a secondary role. To seem morally admirable or respectable can help in the struggle for glory.

As for the question whether human nature changes, John Mill says (in material you will read in POL264 if you do it) that human culture certainly changes, and that culture counts for a lot more than underlying nature. It may be that the events Thucydides describes are likely to repeat themselves in places and times where the culture is individualistic and competitive, irreligious and amoral, but perhaps not in cultures where morality, religion, community values, tradition etc. have more influence. Anyway, our own culture is so much like that of ancient Greece that a lot of what Thucydides describes will seem very familiar.

Some comments on I.23:

'Peloponnesians': Sparta was the leading city of the Peloponnese (the southernmost part of Hellas). Other cities in that region included Corinth. They formed the Peloponnesian league. (Notice the spelling of that word: one L, one P, two Ns.)

'The Thirty Years Truce': A previous war between Athens and Sparta had ended in 445 with a truce supposed to last for 30 years; it lasted only half that time.

Let me fill you in on some of the material we skip over. I.24- describes the civil war between 'the many' and 'the few' -- i.e. between the democratic and oligarchical parties -- in the city of Epidamnus, which led to conflict between the cities of Corcyra and Corinth. Epidamnus was a colony of Corcyra, which was a colony of Corinth. The democrats of Epidamnus got help from Corinth, Corcyra attacked and defeated the forces of Epidamnus and Corinth. The Corinthians prepared to attack Corcyra. Look up these cities in a map (see C.M Bowra (ed.) Classical Greece (Time-Life books), pp. 8-9.

Read I.31-44. The Dispute over Corcyra. (Pause.)

'The Spartan league' (I.31): Otherwise called the Peloponnesian league. The city of Corinth was a leading member.

'The Athenian League': In the closing stages of the Persian war Athens formed a league of coastal and island cities for defence against the Persians if they came back. When most of the members gave up contributing ships and men and contributed money instead, it gradually became an Athenian empire. The Athenians used the money to build and man their own ships, with which they could coerce any city that wanted to stop making a money contribution -- since that city no longer had its own navy it could not resist the Athenians.

'Certain points should be made clear': It was customary to begin a speech by saying what the speaker intended to prove. (Cf. I.37, end of first paragraph, 'Our aim will be...') Speakers often tried to make a striking beginning -- surprising by frankness, apology or concession, or attack -- designed to challenge the audience or catch their attention, and to show how big a task it will be to convince them: the harder the task the more impressive the speaker's skill.

I.33. Notice the mixture of moral arguments ('you will not be helping aggressors') and appeals to Athenian self-interest. (Highlight references to interest or advantage.)

I.39. Notice the antithetic style of writing (anti, in opposition, thesis, a putting): alliance... [contrasts with] complicity; time... at war...[contrasts with] days when they were really secure; aid...[contrasts with] never gave you a share; equally responsible...[contrasts with] you took no part; join fortunes now...[contrasts with] shared... power.. in the past.

I.41, 42. Note the maxims. Maxims (later rhetoricians sometimes called them 'sentences', hence 'sententious') are generalisations or universal truths about human nature or human affairs used as a premise of argument. E.g. statement 'The power that deals fairly with its equals finds a truer security' etc. purports to be a universal truth; similarly the propositions that 'people are very apt to turn upon their enemies' in time of crisis, that 'at such times people regard even former enemies as their friends, so long as they are on their side'. A 'sententious' speaker includes lots of maxims or sentences, giving his speech a philosophical tone. On maxims see Aristotle, Rhetoric II.21 (in Readings, p. 119.)

I.44 'Two assemblies': Athens was a democracy, and all citizens would have been eligible to participate in person in these meetings. Greek democracies did not have representative government: citizens participated personally in the assembly. (More exactly, male citizens did; women did not. Besides citizens there were slaves and resident aliens who could not take part in the assembly. The Athenian democracy was in fact an oligarchy in relation to the whole population of the city.)

Now we will skip over some more. I.46-55 describes clashes at sea between the Athenians and the Corinthians. I.56-65 describes conflict between Athens and Corinth over the city of Potidaea, a colony of Corinth but a tribute-paying member of the Athenian league.

Read I.66-88. The Debate at Sparta and Declaration of War (Pause.)

I.67. 'assembly': This was not an assembly of all citizens, as in Athens. Sparta was not a democracy but an oligarchy -- only some of the male citizens participated in decisions.

I.68. The Corinthian speaker challenges the attention of his audience with a mixture of compliment and insult or complaint.

'Your own way of life' (I.68): The Spartans lived an austere life designed to maintain disciplined military power, needed especially to keep down their slave population, the Helots. The 'Spartiates' were descendants of invaders who had subjugated the ancestors of the Helots.

'Liberator of Hellas' (I.69): in the war against Persia the Spartans led the hellenic land forces, the Athenians the naval.

I.70. The Athenian economy was based on manufacture and sea trade, and their empire (tribute, silver mines, etc.). Corinth was a commercial rival. The Spartan economy was agricultural, the Helots providing much of the labour under the watchful eye of the Spartiates.

I.73 The Athenian speaker faces a very unsympathetic audience. What is his purpose? How are his arguments adapted to that purpose?

I.74. The Persians invaded from the north. As they came down many of the cities in their way surrendered, and then (in some cases) assisted them. The Athenians abandoned their city, moved to an island, and fought the Persians at sea.

I.76. Note the maxims. Notice the view of human nature and morality. Fear (or concern for security), honour, self-interest are the strongest motives, and what is thus motivated is natural and justified. 'It has always been a rule that the weak should be subject to the strong.'

'The Spartan king' (I.79): Sparta was no longer governed by a king, but there were two hereditary royal families who provided two 'kings' who commanded the Spartan armies. (Athens also had a 'king' among its magistrates, who had religious functions.)

I.86. Sthenelaidas exemplifies the abrupt 'Laconic' style of thought and speech ('Laconic' and 'Lacedaemonian' are other terms for 'Spartan').

Which of Archidamus and Sthenelaidas better fits Thucydides' idea of a leader? Which argues in moral terms? Which in terms of expediency?

Antilogies

The Greeks at this time were very interested in antilogies (from anti, in opposition, logos, a word, thought, argument -- arguments in opposition to one another): In I.66-88 Thucydides presents two pairs of opposed speeches, each very persuasive; cf. the speeches of the delegates of Corcyra and Corinth, I.32 ff above. Conflict of two strong arguments is a challenge to work out the truth. Plato was very interested in the clash of arguments -- this is what his Dialogues are all about. Aristotle's writings are not in dialogue form, but he marshals arguments on either side. Through the tradition coming from Plato and Aristotle through the middle ages modern philosophy is a matter of argument on both sides.

The fifty years

The next section of the book, of which we will only read a short extract, is a 'flashback', outlining the history of the 50 years that passed between the end of the Persian war and the beginning of the Peloponnesian War. ("Pentecontaetia" in the top RH margin, p. 15, means "50 years"). When after the retreat of the Persians the Athenians were able to reoccupy their city, their leader, Themistocles, got the walls rebuilt despite the opposition of the Spartans. The Spartan leader, Pausanias, alienated other Greeks by dictatorial behaviour; the Spartans recalled Pausanias and took little further part in action against the Persians (see above, I.75-6 -- 'you were unwilling to fight on to the end').

Read I.96-99 (Pause.)

This passage describes how the league was transformed into an Athenian empire. The Athenian leader Pericles transferred its treasury from Delos to Athens in 453 B.C. Some of the tribute was used to build spectacular public buildings in Athens. The Athenian lower classes profited from the empire also by serving for pay in the navy, and by being paid for public duties, such as jury service (Athenian courts tried many cases arising in the subject cities -- see above, I.77).

We will skip over the rest of this 50 years.

Read I.118-125. The Allied Congress at Sparta (Pause.)

Like the speech of Archidamus (I.80 ff) and the speech of Pericles (below, I.140 ff) this is largely about what writers on military affairs call 'grand strategy', i.e. the overall planning of war.

I.118. 'Xerxes': the Persian king at the time of the war with Persia.

I.120. Note the maxims and antitheses in the last part of this chapter, and also in I.123.

I.123. 'The god': at Delphi, who spoke through the Delphic oracle.

I.124. 'Dorians', 'Ionians': two ethnic groups among the Greeks.

I.126-140, most of which we will skip, describes final negotiations between Sparta and Athens. It includes another 'flashback', in which we learn the end of Pausanias the Spartan and Themistocles the Athenian, leaders in the war against the Persians. Both were accused of having become agents of Persia. Themistocles fled to Persia and offered his services to the Persian King.

Read I.138, on Themistocles (Pause.)

'The King': i.e. The king of Persia.

Note the qualities for which Thucydides admires Themistocles: good judgment on the spur of the moment about the best way to the goal; foresight; ability to explain; 'doing precisely the right thing at the right moment'.

Thucydides makes no comment on the fact that the most famous Greek leaders in the Persian war changed sides. To return to the final negotiations before the Peloponnesian war: Read I.139-146, the Spartan Ultimatum and Pericles' Reply. (Pause.)

Pericles 'the most powerful, both in action and in debate'. Action and speech were the two areas in which glory was to be won in Greek politics.

I.139. 'The Megarians': Megara had broken away from the Athenian league. 'Give the Hellenes their freedom': i.e. dismantle the empire.

I.141. 'Cultivate their own land themselves': with slaves. 'No central deliberative authority': decisions of the Peloponnesian league required debate among the member cities.

I.142. 'Just like anything else, is an art': The idea of art or science (techne) was of great interest at the time. Attempts were being made to formulate in abstract terms the general principles behind successful practice, so that anyone willing to learn the art by listening to lectures or reading a book could become a successful speechmaker, statesman, military leader, etc. Sophists , i.e. wise men or experts (from sophos, wise), travelled from city to city offering to teach such arts for a fee. Their expertise about human nature and human behaviour in politics was sometimes formulated in maxims or generalisations. Because his history shows so much interest in speechmaking, politics, and warfare as arts or skills, it has been suggested that Thucydides was a pupil of the Sophists.

I.143. 'Destruction of the whole of Attica': The main basis of the Athenian economy was sea trade, not agriculture.

I.144. 'Kind of government': The Spartans favoured oligarchy, and imposed it on other cities when they could. The Athenians regarded the lower classes as their best allies, and encouraged democracy. '
'Abandoned even what they had': Abandoned the city to the Persians, and moved to a nearby island.

Compare I.141-3 with I.80-3, I.120-2.

II.1-7, which we will skip, describes the first outbreak of fighting.

Read II.8. Outbreak of War

II.8. 'People's feelings': perhaps especially the upper classes. Thucydides himself was of an aristocratic family. The Athenian upper classes often sympathised with Sparta against the Athenian demos.

II.9-, which we skip, continues the description of the early stages of the war.

Read II.34-46. Pericles' Funeral Oration (Pause.)

I.35 Notice the striking opening: 'I do not agree'.

This speech is a famous statement of liberal ideals ('liberal' with the nineteenth-century connotations of generosity, exercise of freedom, and respect for the freedom of others); see especially II.37, 39 (highlight the significant phrases).

What do you think of his advice to women?

Compare this speech with I.70, 71.

Read II.47-54. The Plague (Pause.)

II.48 'Medical experience': Medicine also at this time was becoming a techne.

II.53 'To enjoy the name for it': Note the assumption (later attacked by Plato) that good behaviour is a means to an end.

II.54. 'Oracles': Thucydides often expresses contempt for oracles and omens.

Read II.59-65. The Policy of Pericles (Pause.)

Notice Pericles' emphasis on his foresight; his remarks on his own qualities; the attack on the 'apathetic' (i.e. the politically inactive); on the importance of sea power (cf. I.81, I.143, I.74).

Compare I.138 (on Themistocles).

II.65 includes Thucydides' own general reflections on the course of the war. Compare I.144, Readings, p. 22.

Pericles does not appear in the story again.

Go back through what you have read so far and consider whether any consistent philosophy emerges from the 'maxims'.

III.1- describes the revolt of Mitylene, one of the few members of the Athenian league which had not been subjected; it had its own navy, and was still left with some independence. Mitylene sent an embassy to ask the Spartans for help.

Read III.8-14 on the revolt of Mitylene

Mitylene was an oligarchy. When the common people were given arms they refused any longer to obey their officers (III.27). The city surrendered to the Athenians, who decided to put to death all the male population, including those who had refused to support the revolt.

Read III.36-49, the Mitylenian Debate

III.52-68, which we skip, describes the trial and execution of the citizens of Platea by the Spartans and their allies, the Thebans. The Plataeans had surrendered on the promise that the guilty would be punished, but only after trial. The "trial" consisted simply in asking them one by one what they had done for the Spartan side in the war. It seems that one of Thucydides' purposes in this part of the history is to illustrate the moral effects of the war by describing some of the atrocities and injustices committed by both sides.

In Corcyra there was fighting between democrats and oligarchs, described in III.70-81.

Read III.82-84, civil War in Corcyra (Pause.)

Compare this with the passage on the plague, II.53. Note the reference to what happens and always will happen while human nature is what it is; compare Diodotus, III.45. Note the interest in signs of intelligence, and the comment on the disadvantage of intelligence; cf. Cleon, III.37

The final atrocities at Corcyra are described in IV.46-48. III.85- continues the account of military operations. We will skip most of books IV and V. I'll give you some idea of the material we skip. IV.1- describes how the Athenian general Demosthenes, by a combination of good generalship and luck, trapped on the island of Pylos a body of Spartans, some of whom belonged to prominent families (V.15).

This led Sparta to propose a peace. But encouraged by Cleon, the Athenians refused to make peace: They 'aimed at winning still more, and, as for making peace, they considered that while they had the men on the island they could do so whenever they liked' (IV.21). When things took a bad turn for the Athenians at Pylos, a reluctant Cleon was made general (IV.27-8), promising victory at Pylos within twenty days. 'This irresponsible claim caused a certain amount of laughter, though the more intelligent members of his audience were not displeased with it, since they calculated that they would enjoy an advantage either way; either they would get rid of Cleon for the future -- which was what they rather expected -- or, if they were wrong about this, they would have the Spartans in their power' (IV.28). After an accidental bushfire had destroyed the cover on Pylos, the Athenians took the trapped Spartans prisoners. 'Cleon had kept his promise, however mad he may have been to have made it' (IV.39). 'The Spartans...as the Helots began to desert, ... feared the spread of revolution in their country', and again offered peace. 'The Athenians, however, were aiming at gaining still more', and 'sent every Spartan representative back empty-handed' (IV.41 -- contrast I.144, II.65).

One of Thucydides' themes in Book IV is the foresight of statesmen. Another is chance, luck, fortune: no matter how much foresight you have, it is always possible things will turn out differently -- in fact, real foresight includes consciousness of that possibility. The good luck of Demosthenes and of Cleon led to the capture of the Spartans at Pylos. Cleon was a fool but lucky. There are more reflections on fortune, and how good luck leads fools to grasp for more, in IV.62-65.

The Athenians had begun to take an interest in Sicily, where there were Greek colonies between which war was imminent. The situation is analysed in an excellent speech of Hermocrates, IV.58-65.

Read IV.80, on the campaign of the Spartan general Brasidas in Thrace. (Pause.)

IV.81-V.10 follows Brasidas' campaign. One of the Athenian generals beaten by Brasidas was Thucydides, 'the author of this history' IV.104; for the rest of the war Thucydides was an exile from Athens, spending part of the time at Sparta (V.26). V.4-10 describes a battle in which the opposing generals were Brasidas and Cleon; both were killed.

The Peace of Nicias

V.14-24 tells how peace was made in 421. (The peace is called the Peace of Nicias, after the Athenian general who favoured it.) The Spartans were willing partly because of concern for the men of Pylos, still held prisoner, partly because of the approaching expiry of a 30 years truce with another rival city, Argos. However the war between Sparta and Athens again broke out, ending in 404 B.C. with the complete defeat of Athens.

V.27- tells how during the peace alliances were dissolved and reformed (at one stage Sparta and Athens seemed to combine against the rest), and how Sparta and Athens fell out again. In these events the young Athenian politician Alcibiades played a devious part. At the end of this Book Thucydides tells of an Athenian attack on Melos.

Read V.84-114. The Melian Dialogue (Pause.)

This passage is a new genre: not a debate in speech form, but a dialogue. The Melian dialogue is notable for the frankness of what the Athenians say about justice and interest. Note the 'law of nature' V.105 -- cf. I.76. Later Melos was taken, and the Athenians put to death all the men and sold the women and children as slaves V.116. Compare the Melian dialogue with III.52-68. This completes the required reading for the week.

We began the course by reading Mill, to make a link between modern political experience and the earlier traditions of political thought -- Mill is very much aware of Greek political thought, and of earlier English political thought, and builds on the tradition while addressing questions still relevant to politics today. We begin the Greek part of the course by reading Thucydides for several reasons:

His history is an excellent example of the historical approach to understanding politics, namely by trying to understand why leading actors acted as they did, and why things turned out as they did;

reading this history familiarises you with the Athenian institutions and events assumed as background by Plato and Aristotle;

the political values that Thucydides' speakers subscribe to, which Thucydides presents in such a vivid and persuasive way, will be criticised and rejected by Plato.

Further Study

In a moment I will give you the tutorial topics for the week 3 tutorial. But first let me indicate further reading you can do if you have time after writing your tutorial paper.

If you have not already done so, read lectures 'Democracy in Australia' and 'Liberal Democracy'.

If you want to read more of Thucydides there is a reading guide to Books VI-VIII in vol. 3 of the Course Materials. (You will need to borrow a copy of Thucydides from the library -- DF229.T5 or PA3612.T5).

Tutorial Topics

1. Think back over what you have just read in Thucydides. What strikes you as similar to our own political experience? What seems remote?

2. In the nineteenth century British readers saw themselves in the Corinthian description of the Athenians (I.70). More recently Americans have seen the conflict between Athens and Sparta as parallel to that between America and Russia. Are there significant resemblances between modern nations and the cities Thucydides describes?

3. "Pericles expresses well the ideals of a liberal democracy, but did not live up to them: he made Athens a 'tyrant city'". Do you agree?

4. Thucydides praises Pericles for his foresight. But should Pericles have foreseen the inadequacies of those who would come to lead Athens in a long war. Compare the wisdom of Archidamus, I.80-5; but in the end Sparta won. Is foresight really possible in such matters?

5. Discuss Diodotus' views (III.41) on the death penalty as a deterrent and his generalisations about human psychology.

6. Thucydides' politicians had to be able to make an impression on an audience of thousands in the open air, without a microphone. What difference has television made to the qualities and skills needed by a politician?

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